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October 1999






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Review: iMate ADB-USB converter

by Daniel Chvatik,


Company: Griffin Technology


(required with dongles and devices that need special drivers)


Requirements: A USB-capable computer (iMac, G3, G4, bronze PB or older Mac with USB card—though those probably have ADB anyway)

Price: $39


imate USB (Universal Serial Bus, the standard on all new Macs) might be a great technology, but it doesn’t do you any good if you are stuck with lots of legacy devices that you cannot connect to your new computer. ADB, or Apple Desktop Bus, the interface standard Apple employed before USB came along, was used to connect mice, trackballs, trackpads, keyboards, graphics tablets, joysticks, game pads, AppleVision displays, and dongles to older Macs. If you needed to use any of those older devices on a new Mac without ADB, you were left high and dry—until Griffin Technologies released the iMate.

The iMate is an ADB-USB converter, meaning it allows your older ADB devices to talk to the new USB interface. Sometimes it might just be convenient to use your nice old 3-button mouse, but in some cases it is even essential because you use a piece of software that is copy protected by a dongle. A dongle is a little piece of hardware that usually connects through the ADB port and allows you to run software when it is connected that otherwise would refuse to run. This method was used to deter illegal copying of very rare and expensive software. Unfortunately, this means you cannot run that software on a newer Mac, unless you use the iMate.

The iMate itself is a small piece of hardware in stylish translucent bondi-blue that connects to your USB port and features a single ADB port for your legacy equipment. The iMate comes with no software, and you won’t need any additional drivers to connect a simple mouse or keyboard. The Mac can handle those with no problem. If you want to connect a device that needs its own driver or a dongle, you need to get the iMate USB driver from Griffin’s Web site.

The iMate sports an activity LED that lets you see what’s going on. Griffin also offers the iMate Fiddler (at same location mentioned above), a program that lets you play with the iMate driver settings, like ADB polling speeds. Those settings shouldn’t be messed with unless you are experiencing problems and know what you’re doing.

While the iMate is not very exciting in itself, it provides an invaluable service to those that need to connect older ADB devices for various reasons. One iMate supports multiple ADB devices (if you chain them together). It also supports keyboard soft power on and off (i.e. using the power key on the ADB keyboards). In contrast to many converters, the iMate is small and not intrusive. It is a must for everyone who needs to protect an extensive investment in ADB technology.

appleCopyright ©1999 Daniel Chvatik, Reviewing in ATPM is open to anyone. If you're interested, write to us at

Reader Comments (68)

Del · November 29, 2001 - 20:44 EST #1
Help!! I've acquired an Apple Workgroup 60 server that I'm using as a desktop. I need to connect an HP 930c with a USB port. However, the Apple doesn't have a USB port. The printer port is entirely different. Is the ADB-USB what I need or is there another type of adapter for this configuration. Thanks. Del
Lee Bennett (ATPM Staff) · November 30, 2001 - 00:33 EST #2
Del, a USB adapter is, indeed, what you want, but not this one. This review is about an ADB to USB adapter. The legacy ADB port was for things like mice and keyboards. What you want is an Apple serial to USB adapter. The problem is, after a quick search, I've only found (and indeed have only heard of) adapters that let you plug older serial devices into a USB-enabled Macintosh--not vice versa. I'll keep looking and post again if I find such a device. Has anyone else seen one?
Lee Bennett (ATPM Staff) · November 30, 2001 - 00:43 EST #3
Del, the fine folks in the #macintosh IRC channel tell me there's no such thing as a serial to USB adapter. The only solution would be to purchase and install a USB card, but those only fit into PCI slots. The machine you have predates Apple's switch to PCI, and you'll find virtually nothing for Nubus slots anymore--especially not USB options.
Del · November 30, 2001 - 20:01 EST #4
Thanks for your research.
Robin · July 30, 2002 - 04:39 EST #5
I have a PowerMac G4 and want to use my AVID ADB video keyboard on my new machine which has only USB and firewire connections. Will buying the ADB-USB converter solve the problem I have?
Thomas Simonsen · December 19, 2002 - 09:31 EST #6
Can I use this adapter to connect a Wacom pen and tablet (with an ADB connector) to the USB port on my PC?

Thank you!

Lee Bennett (ATPM Staff) · December 20, 2002 - 01:53 EST #7
Thomas - since is a Macintosh venue, we have no support available for PC related topics. I can guess that, since USB is supposed to be a universal type of connection (hence its name), it should work, but no guarantees.

For what it's worth, USB-Shop has a two-port mini-ADB adapter for only $35 that lets you toggle between two ADB devices into one USB port.
C. Kaiser · January 6, 2003 - 10:03 EST #8
Has anyone checked if this works for the Eject key on
new USB keyboards? It says it supports soft power on
and off, but where is the Eject key mapped to on my
Extended Keyboard II?

Target system is a dual 1.25GHz G4 running OS 9.2.2 and OS
X 10.2. The keyboard is a Extended Keyboard II.
Paula · April 19, 2003 - 18:55 EST #9
I need to connect my Palm Pilot to my iMac. Unfortunately, my PDA has a serial cable and not USB.

I bought a USB to serial cable, but it doesn't have the drivers for Mac. Do you know where I can get this driver?

Evan Trent (ATPM Staff) · April 19, 2003 - 23:01 EST #10
There are a number of options. First of all you can buy a USB cradle for your Palm Pilot. Most every model has a USB cradle available now.

However if you either wish to avoid spending the money or, by chance, have a Palm Pilot that is so old that there is no USB cradle, you can buy the Palm USB connectivity kit, which includes both a USB to serial adapter and drivers for the Macintosh.

KeySpan also makes a PDA adapter with drivers for the Macintosh.

I do not know whose serial adapter you currently have. There are several out there which do not offer Macintosh drivers, but if you provide the name, I may be able to locate drivers for you on the web.
Georgie · December 8, 2003 - 00:46 EST #11
I have a 17" G4 PowerBook running OS X 10.2.3. My Wacom is connected to my old G4 via an iMate ADB to USB adapter. I can't get it to work on my new Mac. Any ideas?
Lee Bennett (ATPM Staff) · December 8, 2003 - 03:42 EST #12
Georgie - did you download and install the OS X iMate driver?
Jason Guidry · February 4, 2004 - 16:31 EST #13
Hey Georgie I have a new G4 15" powerbook and I want to hook up my old Wacom Intuos (ADB) to it. Does your new set up work and if so what is it. What drivers did you download? I bought the Imate connecter, but the Wacom software says "I chose to not start it up". What did you do and does it work? I did download the Imate driver, but all I get is a file on the desktop "imate OS X 1.5.3.dmg".

Amika Kemmler Ernst · July 16, 2004 - 11:46 EST #14
I just bought a G4 EMAC... wondering if it's possible to purchase a USB-serial port adaptor so that I can use my trusty old Apple Laserwriter300 printer with it. If so, where can I get what I need and how much would it cost? The folks at AppleStore said it's not possible, but if I understood the previous requests and responses correctly, it may be. Thanks! Amika :)
Lee Bennett (ATPM Staff) · July 16, 2004 - 14:19 EST #15
Amika - Keyspan's adapter was the first Google hit. Check the compatibility list at the bottom of the page. It specifically mentions "Apple Personal LaserWriter (300/LS models only)" but that's under the OS 9 section. Running OS X, conditions are a little different.

Belkin also makes an adapter.
Richard Long · September 13, 2004 - 16:28 EST #16
Actually, the USB - ADP is extremely limited on Macs for use with Tablets, and Entirely useless for PCs with anything other than Mice or Keyboards. Any hardware that requires its own driver will not work with a PC as there are no Third-Party Drivers for anything.
Kris · January 5, 2005 - 13:19 EST #17
I have a PowerMac G4 running OS 10.2.8 and was wondering if anyone got their Wacom tablet to work with this imate. I'd like to purchase the imate just to see if it works, and if it does will definitely keep it, but if it doesn't work, wondering if it's alright to return it. Now that I've read past problems that others have had above, I know to download the driver. Any news?
David Allen · January 15, 2005 - 14:40 EST #18
I want to use a legacy Wacom tablet with ADB on a PC. The tablet is a big one, 18"x18" so I can't imagine chucking it. The question has been asked, but I have not seen a confirmation nor a denial of compatibility. If I have the correct wacom driver (UD for W98) and a USB port, why wouldn't it work?
themulf · January 24, 2005 - 22:52 EST #19
I have a UD-0608 for mac that uses a ADB, and I have a iMate usb for back converter. It works for my Windows XP SP2, it detected iMate and used the drivers for the other wacom i am testing. Also i installed the latest drivers for this tablet, but im not getting any sensitivty feedback. If anyone can help AIM me:: psx2tom
Vince Vanier · January 25, 2005 - 20:31 EST #20
Does anyone know if I can use the iMate to connect my old Imagewriter impact printer to my G4 Desktop? I need to do some impact (forms) printing, and I haven't been able to find a suitable solution. Anyone out there try something like this yet? If so, how does OS X communicate with this printer? CUPS? I'm really curious...
ATPM Staff · January 26, 2005 - 00:27 EST #21
Vince - you've got the right idea, but the wrong product. The iMate is a USB-to-ADB adapter. ADB was used for connecting things like keyboards and mice.

You're thinking of a USB-to-serial adapter, such as Keyspan's. We're not 100% sure but it should work if you have OS X 10.2 (Jaguar) or better. We're thinking new versions have the printer drivers for your Imagewriter.

Previous OS X versions will probably require a full installation of Gimp-print. You can use it for 10.2 and 10.3, too, if an Imagewriter driver does not avail itself.
Brett Weiss · May 7, 2005 - 15:38 EST #22
Hi, I am still running OS 9.2.1. I had to buy an old Wacom Intuos off ebay since the new ones wouldn't work on my operating system, then since it was an ADB connector, I had to get one of these iMates. The light on the Wacom comes on (orange) when I connect it, but my Mac can't see it. Do I need to tell the installer that it's an ADB or a USB device? Any other ideas? or, after reading some of the comments above, am I screwed?
edesign · May 30, 2005 - 23:42 EST #23
I have a powerbook g3 lombard can this work? on my HP laserjet postcript printer?
ATPM Staff · May 31, 2005 - 11:11 EST #24
edesign - we can't see any reason why it wouldn't work for you. Check Apple's printer compatibility page to make sure there are built-in OS X drivers for your model printer. If not, you'll have to obtain them from HP, or use a built-in driver that's very similar (some trial and error may be needed) to your model.
Craig (South Africa) · June 2, 2005 - 06:01 EST #25
A student has received an error message saying that there is a USB current overload, and that the USB port has been deactivated after inserting her Flash memory card into her G5 iMac. Theses ports now will not function. How does she reactivate those ports?
Lloyd Smith · June 5, 2005 - 07:15 EST #26
Purchased a "deal" from dealmac for a refurbished Mac Extended Keyboard II and iMate for $11.00. I was using the Apple Pro keyboard for use with Ti Book when at home. That keyboard is basically puke. The iMate with the old board — Works like a charm!

There was no installer CD. Plugged in in DIRECT TO USB PORT and it ran at once in 9.2.2 and in Panther. The Power Key actually turns the Book on and off.

By the way, OWC still has some Extended boards for $7.00.
Danny P · June 21, 2005 - 16:25 EST #27
I have the same issue Brett Weiss described above. Damn, don't buy used intuos at ebay. Some dude ripped me off like that. It just won't work with my PC even though I'm using the adapter. Btw if some one has a mac and wants to buy this tablet (keep in mind it's ADB) I'll sell it cheap, also I'm selling my imate, which is still new. email me
Joseph Nyirenda · June 24, 2005 - 06:26 EST #28
I have a Proxima Cyclops LCD projector and lost the ADB/Serial Cable. Kindly assist me on how to acquire this cable. Please, please I am in a big fix with this device.
ATPM Staff · June 25, 2005 - 11:43 EST #29
Joseph - I'm a little stumped on your question. For what purpose would one use a a serial cable to an LCD projector? In addition, I believe ADB cables and Macintosh serial cables are two different things. The serial cables were 8-pin configuration. ADB cables were 4-pin, and were the same configuration as a standard S-Video cable. ADB was used to connect devices like keyboards and mice.

Tell us what you're needing to do and we can help direct you to the right cable. My first guess is that you my have been outputting a laptop's S-Video signal to the video input of the projector, in which case you simply need an S-Video cable. Those can be picked up at any Radio Shack, CompUSA, Best Buy, etc.
John Parkhurst · July 18, 2005 - 20:42 EST #30
I have an old 18" x 18" Wacom tablet from my old G3, but I want to find a good ADB (or serial) to USB adapter to hook it up to my G4 450Mhz machine. What features would I loose working with PhotoShop by purchasing the iMate, or is there a better product?
Paul Fatula (ATPM Staff) · July 19, 2005 - 10:36 EST #31
John - Wacom officially does not support serial/adb tablets on OSX, and holds the opinion that no USB adapter will provide adequate performanace for a graphics tablet. (See their FAQ for all the details.)
David Bygott · September 1, 2005 - 11:15 EST #32
I too have a faithful old WACOM ADB UD-608 which I want to use with a G5 running OSX Tiger. I came across this site: and I wondered if anyone had comments on this product, which purports to be a solution to this issue? I'm reluctant to waste money on an iMate if there is indeed no suitable driver.
Brian Kessler · October 12, 2005 - 12:58 EST #33

While I expect this is probably the biggest reason why anyone would actually want one -- a new keyboard, mouse, etc. costs less -- this configuration is not supported by either Griffin Technology nor Wacom.

Worse (from my perspective), Griffon only boths to tell you that it doesn't work if/when you go to download a driver for your iMate -- as if anyone would think to download a driver for an adapter:


"There are no third party ADB drivers so devices that require a driver to operate such as drawing tablets will not work with PCs. "

Of course, by the time you read this, you've already opened the package and discovered it won't work without a driver.

Then you try to return the device and the manufacturer tells you they won't take returns on opened packages.

Very bad business.

-Brian Kessler
Rob Riddle · November 2, 2005 - 02:12 EST #34
Having read all of the above, I'm bummed. I have the said adapter in hand, a Wacom tablet and a Windows 2000 machine. Windows recognises the adapter, but will not "find" the tablet when I try to install its drivers. What I have right now is a "pen mouse"... interesting for a few minutes, yes, but not the productivity I was hoping for. I have a G4 Powerbook headed my way and I'm really bummed that it looks like it won't work on that either Unless I'm missing something... Wishing for a glimmer of hope.
Rob R
Norris Chita · November 16, 2005 - 04:10 EST #35
I am in possession of a PROXIMA COLOURWORKS projector. The connection to the computer ia via a SERIAL/ADB cable which I, unfortunately, have lost. As a result of this I can not use my projector. Where can I buy this cable? I am writing from Lusaka, Zambia. I have combed computer shops in Zambia but can not find this type of cable.

D.E. Nicholson · November 16, 2005 - 20:19 EST #36

If you've got one of these iMates and it won't work for you and you'd be interested in selling it, pls. contact me at the
ATPM Staff · November 17, 2005 - 11:10 EST #37
The new web address for the iMate is You can purchase one for $40.
Larry Healey · December 8, 2005 - 18:06 EST #38
I am about to bid on Ebay for a Wacom Graphics tablet (intuos A4) and i have been informed that the iMate will make it work on my G4 Laptop (powerbook) system 10.2. I also have a G4 tower 450 GHz. Will i have any problems using it on either of these machines? Anyone got any good stories to tell about this potential interface?

Cheers. Larry
Lee Bennett (ATPM Staff) · December 8, 2005 - 22:11 EST #39
Larry - well, according to an earlier comment (did you bother scanning through other readers' notes here before posting your own?) using an ADB Wacom tablet through an iMate is not supported either by Griffin or Wacom.
Sonny Hung · January 13, 2006 - 23:01 EST #40
Does anyone here have a ADB Wacom Tablet they'd let go for a good price? I'm working with legacy Wallsteet and need a tablet now... if anyone has a cable for a Wacom SD-311E Tablet please contact me! here! if your in the NYC area....
bionicTechnophobe · February 1, 2006 - 13:20 EST #41

i have a Wacom Intuos 6x8 ADB tablet i'd sell to you. I've long since upgraded to Macs without ADB [my beige G3 is running linux as a server, so i don't use it with that].

e-mail me at atpm [AT] videodocumentary [DOT] org if you're interested. i'm in philly.

Jacques Lederrey · March 1, 2006 - 13:28 EST #42
I'm looking for the opposite function: ADB to USB. Reason: Older Macs (without built-in USB) with a USB card don't function well with USB keyboards in particular in regards to keys mapping.
So I wanted to connect a (new) USB keyboard to the (built-in) ADB port of my old Mac that I keep as a server. Would the iMate work that way? Any other thought?
Gordon · April 4, 2006 - 14:53 EST #43
I am looking to use my old ADP keyboard with a PC (6 pin port) and am having a hard time finding an adapter - any ideas?
ATPM Staff · April 4, 2006 - 15:25 EST #44
Gordon - since we choose to remain focused on the Macintosh side of computing, we have little help to offer. A quick search of Google (which you can continue doing yourself) turned up a hit that may possibly be what you want (and I think/assume you meant ADB and not ADP).
Franky · April 5, 2006 - 09:13 EST #45
Hallo, I have scanner a Eversmart Scitex and in order to work it needs of the key of protection (Dongle), would be the possibility of usareun adapter ADB-USB? With iMate ADB-USB converter.
I hope of to have been clear.
Thanks for the answer.
Chris New · August 5, 2006 - 13:39 EST #46
I just won a Wacom tablet off ebay, and then later noticed that it was ADB only. If I had known, I wouldn't have bid! But, since I've won now, I was wondering what the performance would be like with this adapter. I mean, will the tablet work well on my new Intel iMac, and will it be fast enough to use?

...or am I screwed? :(
ATPM Staff · August 6, 2006 - 16:21 EST #47
Chris - we have already shared Wacom's statement about using converters. Please take a moment to scroll up and scan earlier comments.
Ray charles · September 28, 2006 - 17:23 EST #48

Can you help or advise please.

I have an imac with usb connections and was wondering if there was any way of pairing it up with my old mac laser writer 4/600 ps printer which has an eight pin round serial connection. It is driving me mad.

My printer is a an old work horse and it would be a shame for it to be binned.
Chris Lawson (ATPM Staff) · September 28, 2006 - 18:41 EST #49
You should be able to get a USB-serial adapter that will work for this purpose. Griffin, the same company that makes the iMate reviewed here, used to make such a device, and several other companies did as well.

Sylvester Roque (ATPM Staff) · September 28, 2006 - 20:08 EST #50
Unless I misunderstood this thread from the macosxhints archive. What you would like to do is possible. The general idea seems to be to use a bridge which gives the LocalTalk printer an ethernet connection.

Check the posts at the bottom of the thread for starters on where to look for ideas
Sonny Hung · September 28, 2006 - 20:29 EST #51
Hi Ray,

I'm not one to follow this thread cause I'm not active here as much. Beyond that I'm not really a Mac guy though I do have a few at the house which I use to connect to my Newtons.

To answer your question to the best of my knowledge:
1) you can use a Keyspan USB to Serial MiniDIN 8 (single or double) - I would lean to think that you are on OSX vs. OS9

Part #: USA-28X (this is the new version)


2) now there other options besides a USB to Serial Adapter, and that would be an Asante Adapter which acts as a Print Server which has a Network Jack and converts it to a Serial MiniDIN 8 which I actually have one at my disposal here in NYC/US which unfortunately is a bit far across the pond as they say...

God bless,

Sonny Hung
the Hung Family
Evan Trent (ATPM Staff) · September 28, 2006 - 21:02 EST #52
The best option is the AsanteTalk:
mark conahan · November 14, 2006 - 00:53 EST #53
I found this discussion after acquiring the iMate and plugging it into my WacomArtZ ADB tablet and my Powerbook G4.

So they won't support the ADB tablet, I got that, they haven't ever supported it under OSX.

I can however, use the tablet as a substitute input device - no pressure support but the tablet does seem to map to my screen. I can paint with it with a continuous width line in Photoshop.

Is this behaviour unexpected? It would be nice to have the pressure support but I can see the tablet being useful as an input device even without it. Lasso selection for example is much easier with a stylus than with the track pad. I had a couple of old tablets lying around. maybe I'll try using them this way for a while.
Richard C · February 8, 2007 - 04:03 EST #54
In case anyone is still confused...

Wacom ADB tablets will not work with OSX or a PC. If you do have a legacy machine with ADB connection and you are running OSX, there is a solution.

I have an old G3, I installed OS 9, then installed OSX. To use the ADB tablet you have to change startup disk to OS 9 and restart, but it does allow you to use your ADB.

You may run into issues with OSX though, my old G3 will only support up to 10.2.8 . I have been told that I can upgrade my processor to a G4 and run 10.3+, but hardly seems worth the time.

Good luck, but there are just too few of the legacy machines that are capable of running OSX of any flavor for Apple or Wacom to worry with working out drivers. Especially since these machines are so dated.
TOUREILLE · April 5, 2007 - 07:59 EST #55
I use ArchiCAD on an old G3 os9, in order to work it needs of the key of protection (Dongle), can i use the adapter iMate ADB-USB converter to make my old wibukey running on a G4 os9 or G5 osx ?

Thanks for the answer.
Lee Bennett (ATPM Staff) · April 5, 2007 - 09:36 EST #56
Toureille - you will probably need to ask either the manufacturer of ArchiCAD or Griffin Technology. I'll query the other ATPM staff about this for you, but if no one else posts a comment here, it doesn't mean we've ignored you. Rather, it would mean no one on our staff has any idea.
Clive Dawson · July 23, 2007 - 05:07 EST #57
I purchased an iMate for the purpose of connecting my venerable "Switchboard" ADB keyboard to a G4 Mac, running OS 9.2.2. I also have a Kensington trackball connected to the keyboard in series.

If I don't install the iMate driver, the keyboard works fine and the trackball performs basic (1-click) functions, but I can't get the Kensington's custom button settings (e.g. double click) to work.

If I do install the iMate driver, I achieve full functionality for the trackball, but the keyboard doesn't work at all.

Any help or suggestions appreciated!
Howell Bell · August 7, 2007 - 16:57 EST #58
I have an old Mac Performa 6400 running System 9.1. I am currently hooked up to an Epson Stylus Color 900N using the ADB cable.
Will this adapter allow me to use a new printer that has a USB port?
Eric the Barbaric · January 20, 2008 - 11:04 EST #59
Steve, I like your idea, you may have stumbled across away to recycle old Wacoms. The big problem here is the voltage, I understand the USB adapters take different voltage than ADB, I forgot the reference. Best of luck.
Phil · November 24, 2008 - 11:38 EST #60
I opened an intuos1 up, they're missing most of the circuitry of a normal serial tablet, and all of the circuitry of the usb tablets. So that definitely won't work, unless you add some circuitry somehow. Trying out the griffin imate.
M L Waller · January 31, 2009 - 11:06 EST #61
I am running OS9.2 on a Blue and White 450 G3.I have an old kensington 4 button " thinking Mouse " which I am addicted to. I have the
Imate adb to usb adapter. The mouse works
but only as a two button.

I assume I would
need mouse software for it work as it should ?
anonymous · May 2, 2009 - 01:49 EST #62
Thanks for information on ADB...very useful
jim jones · May 29, 2009 - 00:11 EST #63
well, looks like this forum is finally down. thanks for all the help everyone!
samuel m. kamau · September 27, 2012 - 04:43 EST #64
I am urgently looking for an imate ADB to USB converter... I wish to use with the dongle of viper rip of my imagesetter. I am in Nairobi kenya.. wish to know how i can get one urgetly... may be through DHL... how much do I need to pay for that including sending to Nairobi Kenya by DHL

David Ferguson · January 5, 2014 - 07:05 EST #65
Does anyone know if I can use this adapter with Linux?
If you do, please could you email me on

Owen H · November 9, 2014 - 03:46 EST #66
Will the iMate still work with intel mac's? I'm building an iMac into a colour classic shell, and would LOVE to use an old Keyboard II
Jason P · August 17, 2015 - 08:32 EST #67
I own two of these adapters, one I use at home and one at work. In both cases I have an Apple Extended Keyboard hooked up to my Windows 7 PC. This is a great way to get one of these nice keyboards working on a modern system.

The iMate did work with graphics tablets in early versions of OSX, but tablets were never supported on PCs and current versions of OSX don't have appropriate drivers.

If you're looking to get an ADB graphics tablet going on a newer machine do some other searching in Google, you'll find plans to make an adapter using a microcontroller.
Gary Beamon · November 11, 2015 - 00:30 EST #68
Hi, I have the Griffin IMate that I want to use to connect my Apple Extended keyboard and Orbit track ball mouse to my MacBook Pro. Unfortunately, when I plug the everything in, it asks me to "press the key to the right of the left side shift key" or words to that effect. Then I wait as it tries to recognize my keyboard but nothing else happens. Am I doing something wrong? Is there a work-around for this? Thanks for the help in advance. - G Beamon

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